I hate Facebook as much as the next person, but the largest strike wave in recent American history was organized entirely on Facebook.

You have to use the tools you have to reach people where they're at and help them move to where they need to be. That's what organizing *is*.

A valid use of Mastodon to organize might be to intensify existing political commitments and galvanize them into a core organizing committee.

But we're kidding ourselves if we think we can coordinate large actions from inside the f*ss bubble. It's not there yet.

@turtlebirb given the amount of organized strike-breaking that goes on, seems a bit risky to me.

Publicise, sure. Organize, I'd be extremely wary of.

@turtlebirb your make a good point. There’s a bit of hope with Mobilizon (, but it will only help coordinating existing communities.

There’s still a gap to fill for a new ethical “where people are”

@turtlebirb Good point, thank you for sharing. I agree that all and nothing are bad tactics. Which is the good strategy to get people moving to more free and open tools? How combine the tools properly?

If you publish all (at least the important things) on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram, you enforce them; you give people more reasons to keep were they are. If you publish certain things out of there, you loose most of your audience. How avoid the net effect?

@txopi Like I mentioned to someone else, it depends on your goals. If your goal is to move people to decentralized software platforms, then by all means, start shifting things to Mastodon and encourage people to follow!

But if your goal is to coordinate mass social action like protests or strikes, you have to meet people where they already are in order to help them move to where they need to be. This is the goal I'm responding to.

You can, of course, do both! But I think you'll find that one works against the success of the other.

@turtlebirb I also think that one works against the other.

@txopi I should clarify, like I did elsewhere, that I think these goals work against one another *in the short term*. Long term, who knows?

It's an extra step to ask people to join a new platform in order to participate learn about your protest. And to be perfectly honest I think that coordinating protests and strike actions are more important in terms of improving people's actual material conditions than the value of distributed social media platforms in and of themselves. So that's what is going to guide my decision making.

@turtlebirb Correct, but be aware that this is also a single point of failure, and a weak one, depending on who you're up against. Also, it's not only easy for fb to sabotage your movement (if are ordered to do so, or just feel like it), but also to expose every individual participating in it.

@fnord An important distinction in organizing is between the coordinating body and the public action. In the example of a union or strike campaign, you keep the decisions and deliberations of the organizing committee on the dl, meeting in person, etc. But when you start interacting with the folks you're organizing in the shop, you have to assume that everything is public and observed. These are the practicalities of organizing.

@turtlebirb This is why projects like Loomio are so important. We should be concerned about the power it gives Facebook when it's being used this way. We need to be providing that same ability to people without handing control over it to a megacorp whose intentions often run exactly counter to the intentions of those organizing on the platform.

@turtlebirb the fact that Facebook as a platform shuts out anyone who does not use it entirely forces me to disagree with you. I cannot tell you how many times I have wanted to get involved in something where times and places were only published behind Facebook's login wall. Even twitter does not require you to be logged in to view content. For anyone organizing these kinds of actions I would highly recommend at least posting announcements about dates and times on one of any number of free website hosting platforms. It may work for now but it is a barrier for growth organzers should be well-aware of.

@thufie if you read what I said carefully you'll notice that nowhere did I say Facebook should be the exclusive platform utilised by organisers

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