'User agent' is a great idea that has been weirdly perverted.
Nobody these days (even highly technical people) has a user agent. (Maybe @drwho does.)
A user agent is a piece of software controlled by the *user*, that performs the automatic tasks the *user* has instructed it to. It communicates with other user agents, automatically, on the user's behalf.
Today, the term 'user agent' means 'long, misleading browser-lineage-identification string'. It identifies one of ~3 corporations.
Imagine if we actually *had* user agents.
Like, imagine if our computers were doing things we wanted them to do, automatically, on the network. And, it was our computers doing these things, instead of a rental service like ifttt or google alerts that's selling info on the back end. Imagine if they stopped doing things when we told them to stop.
Imagine if non-technical users had this too.
'User agent' is basically 'daemon, but controlled by an end user'. And, it's a thing we really need & don't have.
@enkiv2 I remember I think it was the early 1990s, lots of talk about 'software agents'. They were sort of the buzzword term, the 'neural networks' of that decade.
I don't really understand even now what lab that hype came from, and why it went away?
@natecull @enkiv2 i've never really found the "software agents" line of thinking very compelling, or at least it hasn't been very compellingly _presented_. it always felt like hype in much the way that VR or that weird brief period when XML was going to save the world did.
on the other hand, if the idea is just that people should own and control computers which do things with their data in their interests, well, that sure does sound like a pleasant contrast to the status quo.
@brennen I can say that even the term "software agent" sounds sort of dull, uninterestingly hands-off, and like something the average person wouldn't think they needed or was qualified to mess with.
Exactly the opposite of the hands-on, approachable, and self-ownership feel that future tech stuff needs to have.
Well, on the one hand, part of the 'software agent' fuss was sort of linked with, um, personal organizers, early handhelds, the idea of an 'electronic butler/secretary' and so there WAS quite a bit of that 'hands-on, approachable' hype about it? You'd have a personal 'Agent' who would be a sort of pseudo-personality in your computer?
But then the other side of the 'software agents' thing was... mobile code, that you'd transmit? I guess 'cloud server' ate that?
Average users have been sold a sort of all-or-nothing mentality -- either be a super-hacker, or sit back and accept whatever you're shown, by the app or the site or your OS, etc.
There are already other options, and I think people are increasingly hungry for them.
I think something that's seriously underused in this context is planners.
Like, no voice assistant understands "I want to do <x> in such a way that <y> but not <z>" but that's something we've known how to implement since the 70s.
A conversational interface to a planner (in order to identify ambiguous situations & clarify them) that then controls what amounts to shell scripts -- that's UI heaven.
I am enjoying playing with Node.js more and more and I wonder if that can be the foundation for agent-like tools.
Mostly because it's mainstream enough to get lots of support, can run as a server, and it's reflective/lightweight/dynamic enough to be able to implement all sorts of AI techniques, up to and including brute-force reimplementation of Lisp.
compared to say, Racket, which I just can't get into, and Python, which I can't get past the whitespace stuff (plays major havoc with my copy/paste to the REPL style)
@drwho Very true. I've been a victim of feeling intimidated by the tech world for a long time, so I can relate to this. Nothing sucks worse for the average user than some smart person going, "It's easy! You just have to (unintelligible) the (incomprehensible)! An idiot could do it!"
@enkiv2 @natecull @brennen
"and OBVOUSLY don't touch the blue and red wires, I mean every fool knows THAT, it'll explode and burn down your house"
"uh, ok, so, could you make a version without the red wires then"
"hell no! better let lots of houses burn down! it keeps the idiots out! heh heh heh!"
Exactly! And not to get too on the nose, but it's linked to the lack of diversity in tech, and the awful rates of accessibility for a lot of people who even ARE interested in helping out and contributing. There are very strict on-ramps to this exploration right now, and that sucks. It's a big part of what open-source and automation should address.
@drwho @enkiv2 @brennen
@erosdiscordia @natecull @enkiv2 @brennen Indeed. They say they want different points of view, but when they get them, they promptly ignore them. A lot of F/OSS projects are the same way. A lot of F/OSS projects that deliberately seek diversity (and I'll toot my own vuvuzula here) are having a hell of a time getting any help.
Also, UI/UX is really hard.
@drwho There is so much to learn, in the free moments I have between trying to get a survival job. Sometimes I have to take deep breaths and try not to get pissed about how deliberately I got steered away from tech stuff and slapped down for my interest in it. It just makes me more determined to figure out my place in it, though.
A cool and chill place for cool and chill people.