@Taweret Also related: recycling! not really a thing it turns out, and would require a lot of infrastructure, science, and economic forces none of which we have to be a thing! Big plastic just saw the height of the US environmental movement c. 70s and decided it was a smart move to hire an Italian American man to dress as a Native American and cry at some roadside litter so they could avoid having to address the waste their products generate themselves, and it worked!!
plastic recycling is an actual corporate lie. most plastics simply can't be recycled
@Taweret @jaranta Yeah FWIW - the recyclability of plastic depends largely on the grade of that plastic, and for most of the grades it either isn't physically possible to recycle them currently, or there isn't enough economic demand for recycled plastic of that grade.
Even for the plastic that is in theory recycled - iirc mostly only types 1 and 2? - they have a short life span (you recycle down - even if you recycle today the product it becomes next likely won't be itself recyclable, it's just kicking the trash down the line really, and making more pollution in the process), and often are themselves impossible to recycle because of contamination and issues of labor and economics.
Most of what we in the developed world think of are "recyclable" is what is generally considered to be "wishful recycling", i.e. we know it doesn't belong in a landfill and just hope that by throwing it into the recycling bin it won't end up there. Sadly, it ending up in a landfill is the better outcome....
@Taweret @jaranta The developed world (primarily America, but other countries too!) mostly handles our "recycling" by simply shipping it off to the developing world to make that trash THEIR problem now, often to great detriment to the local environment and health of those communities.
Recycling COULD be a handy tool for tackling our waste problems, but as it stands now our waste isn't compatible with that tool. The industries responsible for all this impossible to dispose of waste piling up everywhere could've spent the last several decades and parts of their fortunes either making their waste fully closed loop recyclable, or they could've even done the more sensible and easier option of switching to more sustainable, cleaner, and biodegradable materials. Instead, they told us if we just all put our bottles into special Definitely-Not-Trash Bins they would just magically sort themselves out.
@Taweret @jaranta I still love how the Philippines not long ago had a whole diplomatic dispute with Canada cuz they decided to send back 69 (nice) cargo containers full of Canadian trash, I know they probably just sat at a Vancouver port before being redirected back to a different developing nation but I really like to imagine them just dumping it all on Rideau Hall's lawn, just Justin Trudeau waking up to a pile of trash on his yard
@Taweret @NormalPopsicle @jaranta some days I look at recycling bins and think about how someone would have to sort all of that gross, food-covered garbage to actually recycle it and I know in my heart that nobody will. Certainly you couldn't hire someone for that job in Canada. Maybe they'll swing a magnet over it to grab the steel, probably not. It will be shipped off to another country and dumped.
@Tel @Taweret @jaranta Oh people do sort the recycling for you, and it does not at all look like a job I would envy! Especially since it seems like almost everything they get given is "wishful recycling", just fucking broken umbrellas or exploded fast food ketchup packets or whatever, you're just sorting garbage to be thrown into a pile and taken back to the dump really, ugh
@NormalPopsicle @Taweret @jaranta The language of "developed" for mostly rich mostly white countries & "developing" for everyone else is another one of these propagandistic lies BTW. More accurate words would be like, imperialist/exploiting/oppressing countries on one end & neocolonial/exploited/oppressed countries on the other.
@NormalPopsicle @Taweret @jaranta Actually since this thread seems to be well suited for ranting lol. "Climate change" instead of "global warming" is another one of these. In no way is it inaccurate that the globe is getting warmer (regional variations are exactly that, regional variations). Conservatives pushed this new language because "change" is less suggestive of an action with consequences and therefore sounds "less bad". The rest is rationalization.
Of course one could argue that "global warming" is itself a term that blunts what's really going on, which is massive, cross-species **genocide** at a historically unprecedented pace.
@tparadox @NormalPopsicle @Taweret @jaranta Well, "once in a century hurricanes happening once a year" is what people were saying when "global warming" was still the predominant term, they didn't just start saying it after.
It's ultimately a question of power, not of reason. The rationalizations (on either side) come *after* the orientation.
@noyovo @tparadox @Taweret @jaranta tbh imo "climate change" kinda is more accurate in the wider picture, like it isn't just that we're warming things overall, though we are, but also that we've thrown the entire global climate into chaos - and that's going to have a wide range of consequences, not just higher temperatures.
To me "climate change" better encapsulates those "once freak weather is now normal" cases, plus I mean my impression is it definitely seems like some day, probably in terms of centuries but still, even if humanity stays on its bullshit the climate would inevitably boomerang the opposite way, the way it has with past sudden climatic changes, and while that's super long term it does kinda feel important to me that we keep in mind that sort of big picture too? Like, we aren't just messing up today or tomorrow by making things hotter - we're messing up a carefully balanced system that won't stabilize again on time scales that humans struggle to appreciate.
@noyovo @NormalPopsicle @Taweret @jaranta developing countries, so called, because they are developing their exploiters and oppressors: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2017/jan/14/aid-in-reverse-how-poor-countries-develop-rich-countries
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