Follow

Why is it always "If we pay workers $15/hour, the prices for everything will skyrocket!" but never "How can we afford to pay CEO's 347x more than the average employee?"

Β· Web Β· 12 Β· 45 Β· 56

@Ferretsyndicate the price of a living wage limits the humble CEO to a single private jet purchase per year

@Ferretsyndicate

hey yeah! We could just take all the money from the boss and it wouldn't even affect the total revune of the company, just the equity of it's distribution.

There would be no reason to increase prices beyond malice.

@Ferretsyndicate

Also like, we already live with companies arbitrarly rasing prices for blatant and naked profit. We've done nothing but aquess to the pharmacutical industry and all that's happened is that the CEOs get richer and the rest of us pay more for medcine and die of preventable illness.

@Ferretsyndicate (That 347x number is old, btw. I think it's from before Trump took office? Either way, the number back when I checked last year was somewhere around 360x or so. It's likely increased since then too.)

@Roxxie_Riot @Ferretsyndicate Yep. And the "trickle down economics" tax breaks implemented by the Trump administration only increased the inequality beyond the scope of this particular figure.

There's so many ways that they're doing this bullshit that it's a wonder we're not burning down every mansion we can find.

@Ferretsyndicate @KitsuneAlicia

That's becuase they keep saying it's completley fine for the police to murder people for like, I dunno, whatever reason.

God forbid you actually preform civil disobeince; they'll probably kill you and your whole family.

@KitsuneAlicia @Ferretsyndicate One thing I've found that seems to be the cause of a lot of disparity is that really highly paid employees, including CEOs, tend to get a lot of their compensation in stock. My stock compensation has been worth more than my cash comp at my past several jobs. Frankly I think we need to end that.

@Ferretsyndicate because, a) the CEO is just one person, and he's doing such a good job!, and b) most people think that number is, at best Γ—7, and at worst Γ—30

nobody would want to believe they are two orders of magnitude off, and hardly anyone knows what that means, anyway

@ferretsyndicate For those cases, there are probably way more than 347 minimum wage employees.

re: capitalism, CEOs Show more

re: capitalism, CEOs (cont'd) Show more

re: capitalism, CEOs (cont'd) Show more

@Ferretsyndicate
Trying to think from their perspective: I think is because the company exist to enrich them, so being fair to the rest of the employees is irrelevant & probably counter productive. All the efforts go to appease the masses and make them believe they could always be worst. ("at least you have this job")

@Ferretsyndicate

Increasing wages without also putting in price control on housing, food, utilities, medicine, etc. will only do a temporary good.

It's the same argument I have with people who think that UBI by itself will fix everything.

"Oh, everyone gets $1000 per month as part of UBI? Oh look, every landlord just increased the rental price by $1000+"

@Tau_Leonis

I dont disagree. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't strike where and when we can even if we can't get all the goods at once.

@Ferretsyndicate

All this talk over minimum wage and no talk of maximum wage.

After a certain point any money earned after that should be taxed at like 95%+.

Unlimited wealth is immoral while there are starving and suffering people and the environment needs help too for our animal siblings.

@xj9

It would cost more to pay employees a living wage. But there's plenty of historical and contemporary examples to show it's achievable.

But pragmatism aside, it's the morally correct thing to do. Saying otherwise would be an argument for wage slavery and debt bondage imo.

@Ferretsyndicate

see that's a much better place to start an argument. though you are still painting a very black and white picture. i agree that people need to get paid, but we need to look at the practical outcomes of increasing minimum wage.

specifically, does a $15 / hr minimum wage for organizations with large work-forces get them into "buy an expensive robot" territory? if it does, then the outcome is actually worse because "not a living wage" is strictly better than "no job at all".

the real problem, imo, is the relationship between workers and management. management is directed to extract profits, making all workers a necessary liability. if workers had any kind of say in how the business is run, they would opt for the highest sustainable salary and benefits.

i don't think minimum wage is a solution, what we need is a lot more cooperatives and people should refuse to work for hierarchical corporations.

@xj9

Many people can't refuse.

But, yes, in the long run, syndicates, coops, etc. are the goal.

But the OP says nothing about which one is more expensive--it's pointing out how outlandish CEO salaries are never questioned; the cost never seems to be worthy of consideration (despite rising CEO wages being firmly correlated to stagnating worker wages, which surely has a macroeconomic impact).

But that doesn't mean establishing a feasible living wage isn't a step in the right direction.

@Ferretsyndicate ohmygoddidyounotreadmyfuckingpostimgonnayeetifihavetohaveanotherdiscussionlikethis

@xj9

Nah. People who step in to defend rich people and then go "if I was poor, I would simply choose not to work for a hierarchical organization" suck.

@Ferretsyndicate

it’s called playing devil’s advocate. if you can’t win against someone who agrees with you, how are you going to convince people that disagree with you?

welcome to debate club 😊

@xj9

"Wheels are stupid. They only work because they are round and thus roll."

@Ferretsyndicate i hope i'm wrong, but i think the more probable outcome of 15 / hr minimum wage is more robots, not better wages.
@xj9 @Ferretsyndicate i hope for a future where robots replace menial labour tasks, but we're in a period where not all people have had the chance to further their education to a point where they can hold higher jobs
@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 >many people cant refuse

you mean theyre too busy muttering under their breaths, wasting time they could be using productively to form or join unions
@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 not saying unions are perfect in their current state but you cannot deny there is power in numbers

@wowaname @xj9

I totally want people to join unions and form unions. I participate in one myself.

Not sure what this has to do with arguing that raising the minimum wage is bad/pointless/ineffective/etc however?

@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 its more a question of ideals: convince the employer to raise wages rather than forcing him by means of minimum wage law

ideally i'm pushing toward laissez-faire, supply/demand, "natural" form of economy, rather than government intervention. thats all
@wowaname @Ferretsyndicate

i think unions are stupid. they only work because the workers can threaten to not work. and if you want to have into into how the company is run, a cooperative is going to do a much better job of accomplishing that goal

@xj9 @wowaname

"Unions are stupid. They only work because workers can threaten to not work" is by far the worst phrase I've read since leaving Twitter.

@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 cooperatives would be cool but i havent studied much into them to see how viable they would be
@wowaname

ok try to find some citations when i get off work, but from what i’ve read cooperatives actually have a lot of advantages over traditional corporations.

@wowaname @xj9

There's a cooperative-like organization called the MST in Brazil and it's one of the best examples I can think of. The anarchist cooperatives in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War worked very well as well--it's debatable whether this was a product of the war's circumstances, however.

@Ferretsyndicate @wowaname

well, i’d rather be a worker-member that has actual voting rights than a union member that exists at the mercy of the host corporation.

i know i’m a stubborn and often unreasonable asshat. which is why i’m confident that i will topple capitalism before i die. 😎

@wowaname @xj9

That's my ideal situation. Again, the original post was about our media, and general perception in today's society amongst most liberal/conservative thought:

That raising wages for workers to a completely reasonable level is unaffordable (had the min. wage kept up w/ inflation & productivity it would be $22+). But obscenely high CEO/manager salaries don't warrant the same judgment, nor scrutiny.

@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 ya thats a fair point (sorry i strayed from that) and realistically idk how to address that... its kinda hard to convince someone sitting atop a pile of money to just not make that much money

@wowaname @xj9

You never will. They'll always have to be forced in some way.

@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 i want so hard to believe that life is fair enough for these things to work out somehow, but im constantly disappointed
@Ferretsyndicate @xj9 i have to swallow the ultimate redpill that everything is unfair
@xj9 @Ferretsyndicate "WORK FOR FREE PEASANT SCUM! I CAN'T WAIT FOR MY ENGINEERS TO DESIGN FOR ME THE PERFECT LOYAL EMPLOYEE TO FIRE YOU INSTANTLY. WORK FASTER I SAID!"
One month later:
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN I NEED 100K TO TROUBLESHOOT THE PROBLEM?! SEND ONE OF YOUR TECH PEOPLE TO FIX MY ROBOT! NEED ME TO SUE YOU TOO FOR VOID WARRANTY?!"
You get the rest pictures.

@Ferretsyndicate never answers the question of why a CEO should get paid even 15/hour

Sign in to participate in the conversation
Radical Town

A cool and chill place for cool and chill people.